Fresh Malware Hijacks Cryptocurrency Mining – Schneier on Security

New Malware Hijacks Cryptocurrency Mining - Schneier on Security

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Fresh Malware Hijacks Cryptocurrency Mining

This is a clever attack.

After gaining control of the coin-mining software, the malware substitutes the wallet address the pc holder uses to collect freshly minted currency with an address managed by the attacker. From then on, the attacker receives all coins generated, and owners are none the wiser unless they take time to by hand inspect their software configuration.

So far it hasn’t bot very profitable, but it — or some zometeen version — eventually will be.

Comments

I’ve heard of another infection which monitors the clipboard and silently substitutes any Bitcoin address found there with its own, hoping that the user will not revalidate after pasting.

I don’t this attack would affect too many miners.

They usually keep track of their earnings several times a day. If they all of a sudden wouldnt receive any more coins they would notice.

Same for pool mining, always keep an eye on your prizes from the pool.

This malware would make you liberate at most a few hours.

Speaking of “cryptocurrency mining” it’s having a trinary market effect.

Not te the case of bitcoin but te the likes Ethereum and Zcash, high end graphics cards can be used ter mining equipments. But rente te the like Ethereum and Zcash mining have only got serious because of the bimbo prices for bitcoin.

So bitcoin goes up ter value, causes a secondary effect of making the likes of mining Ethereum or Zcash look good, so the trinary effect is high end graphics cards end up not te gamers machines but mining equipments.

What however is not spil clear is it is also hurting the reputation of the high end graphics cards manufactures that are eyeing not just their reputation getting trash talked by gamers, but watching the product they ship being waterput up on the likes of eBay for twice or even three times their Recomended Retail Price by people speculating ter graphics cards. Often taking any profit and ploughing it back to buy better mining equipments.

It is infrequent for malware to be performing a public service but the sooner the so-called “cryptocurrency” bubble is burst, the better for the real global economy. The real economy is already being impacted by what should more appropriately be called vapourcurrency (or vaporcurrency depending where you live) and the sooner it happens the less real economic harm it will cause when the bubble bursts – and it will.

What however is not spil clear is it is also hurting the reputation of the high end graphics cards

That wasgoed a year or two ago. ASICs rule thesis days. Antminer S9 Bitcoin, with it’s 14TH/s (that’s terra hashes vanaf 2nd) runs rings around the top GPUs and consumes much less power, and is designed to run 24×7. Something a GPU wouldn’t last a year doing.

Crypt Currency isn’t currency. The fact that anyone can embark one for any reason and they aren’t backed by anything like gold or governments makes them more like stocks. Stocks at least have a price to earnings for valuation. There is no good reason for Crypto Currency to have value. It only has value because people think it does. Meaning, it can vanish overnight if people don’t value it anymore.

There is no stability of BitCoins to say Dollars. When I make something it cost mij dollars. I have to buy parts, pay employees and utilities etc. After I sell my product with Bitcoin at some time I have to convert that back to dollars to pay my bills. With Crypto Currency being so volatile, I can’t control my profit margin. One day I may make $1k/unit one day and the next day I might have a loss. Other currencies don’t switch so quickly so the price of Ponds to Dollars is predictable.

It’s a joy idea and it has some value today but the same could be said about pet rocks.

It will eventually be profitable when it becomes an automated salami attack.

I did some light research on encrypting the Windows clipboard. Some people have attempted to start such a project. There are also embarassment/social engineering issues surrounding VMWare sessions and the Windows clipboard. This problem seems right up there with windows messages passing inbetween window treats being globally accessible. (Wasgoed this everzwijn immobile?)

I find the psychology and ethics of this interesting and the lack of consideration for solving practical problems (and addressing the real economy) does bother mij.

“like gold or governments”

I like you! You’re funny!

the real global economy

Hahahahahahaha (*breathes*) hectare hectare hectare hectare hectare . . .

Yeah, because “the real global economy” is free from manipulation, corruption, and inequity. Like there were no bubbles bursting before Bitcoin came along.

Crypt Currency isn’t currency. The fact that anyone can begin one for any reason and they aren’t backed by anything like gold or governments makes them more like stocks.

They’re backed by math. That has at least spil much validity a being backed by physics (gold) and a hell of a loterijlot more than being backed by a government. Computers are used for financial transactions all the time ter the modern world, it’s all just rolling pinnig and then people agreeing that it represents value.

There is no good reason for Crypto Currency to have value. It only has value because people think it does. Meaning, it can vanish overnight if people don’t value it anymore.

Same is true of “precious” metals like gold. There is little real use for gold beyond people thinking it has value. There wasgoed a time when aluminum wasgoed worth more than gold. The same has bot happening for diamonds, too, and all sorts of other things spil technology advances. It’s brief sighted to single out cryptocurrencies spil a fad rather than just another part of that march of technological progress that will both create some value and demolish other value.

There is no stability of BitCoins to say Dollars.

The same can be said for the currency that is used by failing countries around the world. And the stability of the US itself is looking more and more doubtful. I don’t know that Bitcoin is the ultimate reaction to those problems, but a fresh solution is unquestionably attractive to people who have no reason to trust the old systems that have created thesis problems ter the very first place.

When I make something it cost mij dollars. I have to buy parts, pay employees and utilities etc. After I sell my product with Bitcoin at some time I have to convert that back to dollars to pay my bills.

Not necessarily. You could transact your entire business te Bitcoin. No, it’s very likely not viable to do that presently, the same way it would be difficult to run your business using gold. But if you’re not going to argue against the value of gold, you shouldn’t be arguing against the value of Bitcoins.

With Crypto Currency being so volatile, I can’t control my profit margin.

You of course can do that. Many businesses accept Bitcoins and do just fine. I do agree that the volatility is a gigantic problem to anyone who wants to work exclusively te the Bitcoin economy. But, again, the same can be said about anyone who works with a currency te a country that is unstable.

The bottom line is that Bitcoin is math, and that it is not subject to the inflationary caprices of the rich and powerful. It has it’s own issues with human stupidity, but you can’t blame math for people being dumb.

@Clive Robinson, sorry to be pedantic, but “trinary” is not the same spil “tertiary”, which is the what you describe.

“[. ] price of Ponds to Dollars is predictable”

Ponds. Aw jeez. yet *another* “cryptocurrency”. ,-)

(“pounds sterling”, from an avoirdupois standpoint:

‘That will be two hundred pounds, master.”

“Here yer go, guv’strafgevangenis. CRASH!”)

Where do you get the assertion from, that graphics cards won’t live long under stress? Since the workstations of our department run pretty much all year round – having shutdowns of a few minteken only for updates our GPUs are permanently operation and work good – however they are mostly passively cooled.

Your statement regarding cryptocurrencies holds for basically every currency, which is just a convention a group of people chose to go after.

I’ll disagree with “Implossibly Stupid” here ter that gold te and of itself has an intrinsic value spil a uncommon metal. I expect its value to increase overheen (a long period of) time since all our electronic gadgets require it (and copious amounts of copper).

The “real economy” is closer to the ground such spil peoples everyday tasks and needs. Abstract concepts enshrined ter legislation and financial instruments are layered on top of this. At the tertiary level things like metals trading or cryptocurrency are a spel eliminated from anything te liveable reality.

I have found it useful te discussion to agree what terms mean otherwise discussion turns into point scoring.

Bitcoin is a constructed thing. Claiming Bitcoin is backed by maths is an appeal to authority and repeating the eis is spil bad spil the 60Hz myth spun about eyes perception being more limited than it is and pc displays.

It’s interesting how overheen this past month both CPU vormgeving flaws and Windows operating system flaws have bot exposed.

If you’d read Clive’s postbode more cautiously, you would have seen that he’s not talking about Bitcoin’s effect on graphic cards — because indeed, it hasn’t bot economical to mine Bitcoin on a GPU for years.

But spil Clive pointed out, there are other currencies (eg Ethereum) which not only work better on GPUs, but are designed to not be spil amenable to ASIC mining (high memory requirements, for example).

It is the Ethereum (et reeds) miners who are cleaning out the retail supply of any graphics card with more than 2GB of memory. Do attempt to keep up.

Bitcoin is a constructed thing. Claiming Bitcoin is backed by maths is an appeal to authority and repeating the voorkoop is spil bad spil the 60Hz myth spun about eyes perception being more limited than it is and laptop displays.

Indeed. It’s essentially democratically managed, but with less ensure than than dollar. The dollar is required to pay your taxes, but at any time, any segment of Bitcoin users can choose to switch to another cryptpcurrency or switch the rules for how bitcoin functions. This is not indeed any different from government backed currency, except that there is less certainty that it will keep it’s value or stay accepted overheen the long run.

Where do you get the assertion from, that graphics cards won’t live long under stress?

From Mapko Kpoh, cofounder of Genisis Mining, which happens to be one of the largest ter the world. I took his word. Mainly the ventilatoren will fail and that requires downtime for replacement. Good movie to witness. Ter the movie he explains why contract pricing differ inbetween ASIC and GPUs, and he says GPUs fail typically within a year.

They’re backed by math.

Actually you’ve left a few things out that are of more concern than the math and peoples inability to securely implement it.

1, Global Heating.

Two, Toxic waste dumping.

Three, Lost chance cost.

To name but three of many more.

It is estimated that crypto currency miners are using more violet wand than a number of puny very first world nations. Much of that is generated by fossile fuel. Ter the case of China with almost the worlds worst doorslag footprint vanaf KWh. Thus crypto currancy has the worst doorslag footprint of just about any curranc te the world and is an ecological disaster.

But there is more to it than just the electrical play used to mine. There is all the energy requiredvto make the electronics used te mining equipments. Likewise the plastics etc for PCB’s, cables, and all the other components. Which brings us onto the toxic waste. Most mining equipments are not made te an environmentaly safe environment or process. China is known to have bot and still is a very cheap place to dump toxic waste including that which comes from every stage of mining equipment production.

Eventually the “go after the money question” so much has bot wastefully invested te this “maths” to generate a few numbers that have no tangible connectivity to the world wij live ter. You have the same amount of odds to generate thesis numbers by throwing dice spil you do with exhastively searching. Thus the question about what the value invested could otherwise have bot more profitably used.

Presently nobody emerges to be interested ter talking about thesis rather than the horrendously volitile nature of botcoin.

It is the Ethereum (et reeds) miners who are cleaning out the retail supply of any graphics card with more than 2GB of memory. Do attempt to keep up.

You need to witness the movie I just posted and see the difference inbetween Proof of Work (BitCoin’s specimen) and Proof of Stake (Ethereum’s fresh monster.)

But spil Clive pointed out, there are other currencies (eg Ethereum) which not only work better on GPUs

Can you share a reference, please?

” When I make something it cost mij dollars. ” – Tautology PhD candidate.

Someone needs to think more deeply about economic theory before they attempt to define terms.

A currency is just a stand ter for commodity value. It’s not magic, it’s just insured.

The Dollar is no less a pseudo-currency than bitcoin, it’s just backed by FDIC, etc.

Functionally it’s no different, the Dollar just has a built establishment behind it.

Both are trading something that has value by virtue of public trust and rente.

Nobody is telling waterput all your capital te a single unsecured basket. Basic rules still apply.

Being fearful of a bitcoin crash is equal to being fearful of a stock crash – Both loom.

Sitting on paper money isn’t particularly excellent economic advice either.

People are continuing to get rich right now – they either know what they’re doing or they don’t,

but you’re sure not demonstrating them the error of their ways – all the way to the canap, lol.

A brainy investor can profit te either script, a defensive hoarder will not. YMMV.

“The Dollar is no less a pseudo-currency than bitcoin, it’s just backed by FDIC, etc. “

“Mainly the ventilatoren will fail and that requires downtime for replacement”

Cleaning ventilatoren is unlikely, this is a fact. Nobody has little enough fingers.

(Gently pets Viper v770 128mb, that’s a good female, keep on working just fine. )

I felt I wasgoed a bit too strong and snappy with my very first comment te this topic. I do believe there is something te what you say about the nature of cryptocurrencies.

I’m still faffing with organising my fresh rekentuig setup. Te the meantime I have nothing to do with cryptocurrencies albeit could te theory accept cryptocurrencies off clients. The practcial reality however is cryptocurrencies are effectively unusable by almost all my client base and would add a management overhead for mij. I am also not a financial muziekinstrument speculator and a large one day market adjustment could be costly.

Some UK banks will close account involved with cryptocurrencies or turn down to treat transactions involving them. From the Daily Kneejerk:

I’m intrigued by why the banks don’t lambast Microsoft et alhoewel for security weaknesses and shroud wave overheen alleged breaches of tegenstrijdig money laundering laws.

Just think about all the physical machinery that makes up the world economy plusteken masse –

It’s quickly eroding the physical environment that it fundamentally relies on to exist.

Unfettered selfish rente exclusively is utterly expensive/devastating for any system prototype.

What lasting value is it all actually creating for the future? Trash, fancy tombstones.

You think they wouldn’t accept a few hundred thousand BTC for one of those? I bet they’d consider it! ,)

Or: Technology Recapitulates Biology Volume 323. Has anybody surveyed the taxonomy of biological viruses, parasites, pathogens etc to see if there are any remaining mechanisms that have not yet bot exploited by human-created laptop malware?

What security is needed for a pyramid scheme? Why?

Isn’t all that is needed is to keep the mark(s) out long enough before realizing some one else’s larceny wasgoed better masked than their own.

What court would hold any (proportional or stringent) liability?

Like huis improvement & pool contractors- they just fold up & popup again under a fresh name. After having liquidated any prior assets.

Ter a dennenboom of thieves, what exactly is the value & ethics?

By-the-bye, South Korea determined to regulate Cryptocurrency spil a commodity. They will tax it- only payable te Government issued currency.

I think I’ll love “The Bite” rerun again.

I bow to you with all the respect that virtue pays to vice. Which is to say, I like the way you think even if I abhor the values it represents.

Ledger eis to have sold the millionth Ledger hardware wallet.

Ledger Nano S is a Bitcoin, Ethereum and Altcoins hardware wallet, based on sturdy safety features for storing cryptographic assets and securing digital payments. It connects to any laptop (USB) and embeds a secure OLED display to double-check and confirm each transaction with a single tapkast on its side buttons.

@ Bob Dylan’s Itchy Palm

Ursula K Le Guin has passed away. Here are two of hier quotes with a security theme.

“I think hard times are coming when wij will be wanting the voices of writers who can see alternatives to how wij live now and can see through our fear-stricken society,”

“I wish wij could all live ter a big house with lots of rooms, and windows, and doors, and none of them locked,”

SK and a few other countries are pursuing options including their own state-run CC’s.

It makes fair sense for now spil AFAIK none(?) of the major currencies out there that people are using are based te SK, so they’d be providing up both controls and tax revenues if they just permitted “free” trading. Their population is insanely tech oriented so the adoption rate is also very high, and SK has traditionally bot wary of outer market manipulations for slew good reasons. The proposed geobsedeerd is one of several evolving considerations. It won’t be voortdurend, you can count on that.

The online uprising against the government’s plans puts Voorzitter Moon Jae-in a harsh spot, and his office wasgoed quick to say a verbod is just one proposal under consideration.

Spil of Friday, a petition on the webstek of the presidential Blue House had drawn more than 120,000 signatures opposing the budge. Powerful internet traffic shortly crashed the webpagina.

“The latest idea to kerkban it all seems to have come out of a fear that when the bubble bursts and things go wrong, it will be all on the government,” said Yun Chang-hyun, an economics professor at University of Seoul.

– Their GDP /vanaf capita ter the 60’s wasgoed $80. They’ve come a long way ter a very brief period.

Thing have slowed lately so they’re taking a wait and see treatment. It makes sense ter setting.

@ AJWM: @ Clive Robinson:

If you’d read Clive’s postbode more cautiously

It is the Ethereum (et alreeds) miners who are cleaning out the retail supply of any graphics card with more than 2GB of memory. Do attempt to keep up.

I stand corrected. No reference required, wij’re talking about two different issues. I do attempt to keep up, but I sometimes fail. Sometimes more than sometimes.

But the movie is good, regardless.

Ursula K Le Guin has passed away. Here are two of hier quotes with a security theme.

She also had a few choice cautionary words about Google, that wij now know were shall wij say not choice enough.

I stand corrected

Neigh worries, just blaim it on that harsh mistress of yours.

Spil you can see from the time stamp “I’m getting a fair crack of the whip” spil well[1]

I guess I’m coming up to the awake for 35-40 hour time again and crash out by the weekend. I’ll be fortunate to be awake more than 8-10 hours a day by then.

The Doc’s say “It will lodge soon” and “just chill and take things leisurely”. They don’t emerge to realise I’m not a glacier.

[1] However those Jessie J boots sure leave an impression when you get walked all overheen ,-)

They’ve come a long way ter a very brief period.

They have, and the growing agonies have sometimes bot badly evident.

For various reasons it’s a country and people I like, which is why I’m more than a little “brassed off” with the US and China using South Korea spil proxie ter their p155ing contest of Foreign Policy.

Spil for the current US Executive, I’m far from struck with this notion of “wij’ve got them so wij might spil well use’m” overheen nuclear weapons (especially the “carrier group killer” sea bottom nuclear mines). Spil every day goes by they make the North Koreans look more and more rational.

@Clive Robinson, etc.

I guess I’m coming up to the awake for 35-40 hour time again and crash out by the weekend.

Seems it’s a common symptom. I am embarking to think it has to do with the color temperature of the screens wij stare at. I’ll make the color warmer and measure the effect. There wasgoed a postbode a few months ago about color effects on the human being, and I believe there is strong supporting measured empirical correlation. Bluish colors, if I reminisce, tend to affect sleep patterns negatively.

“For various reasons it’s a country and people I like”

Very likely just nostalgia. Spil Americans wij don’t let ourselves get too fastened to other countries.

It makes it that much more awkward when their use to us spil a proxy is overheen – unless oil.

“Spil every day goes by they make the North Koreans look more and more rational. “

Schepper damn I know. Wij’ve truly done it – a murderous dictatorship looks rational by comparison.

Kim is more Trump than Trump let’s face it. Wij’re out-terrorizing the terrorists.

They’re out MAD-ing an actual madman.

Moar nukes is the response, naturally. TEN TIMES more nukes is TEN TIMES more strength!

Linear minds ter a slagroom without corners, never comprehending that gentle curvature.

I truly do hope wij aren’t all killed by a moron’s fads. At least some zuigeling of committee.

The “real economy” is closer to the ground such spil peoples everyday tasks and needs.

But that’s not what David wasgoed referencing. He wasgoed talking about an economy that is deeply affected by the Bitcoin boom and possible bust. I would agree with your terms more (i.e., Bitcoin is now more like commodities trading), but then you have to agree that it has a value that is spil “real” spil precious metals.

Bitcoin is a constructed thing.

Most everything ter modern economies is “constructed”. You use a laptop to do some work for someone. That employer pays you by fiddling some onaardig to “meteen deposit” it to your bankgebouw. You use a credit/debit card to purchase a movie spel. I could go on, but I hope you get the point. It makes no sense to single out Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency) spil if the idea of digital assets is something fresh.

Claiming Bitcoin is backed by maths is an appeal to authority

What? Just because there are authorities ter science does not mean that scientific disciplines are just an appeal to authority! If you don’t understand the mathematics involved, there may be a bit of faith on your part, but that just the nature of advanced science. The same is true for the main topic here of security. That is why cryptographic security is necessary for thesis decentralized currencies like Bitcoin. It is government-backed currencies that are more reliant on authoritarianism.

Actually you’ve left a few things out that are of more concern than the math and peoples inability to securely implement it.

It’s not so much that I’m leaving them out, it’s that you can’t indeed say the ills are truly any worse than the ills waterput upon people by the “real economy”.

It is estimated that crypto currency miners are using more electro-therapy than a number of puny very first world nations.

Let’s pretend that’s true. So? What do other global financial systems cost the world? Not just ter terms of tens unit, but also te the form of defense spending/war to “back” the value of a country’s currency (e.g., keiner’s listig)? And uncountable other costs that are associated with the “creation of value”.

Which brings us onto the toxic waste.

Nope. Bitcoins neither created the notion of toxic waste, strafgevangenis is it a particularly bad offender. Point mij to a single environmental disaster caused by Bitcoin mining. Meantime, I can point you to entire histories of actual land being unwrap mined for resources, usually coming arm te mitt with human rights manhandles.

Ultimately the “go after the money question” so much has bot wastefully invested ter this “maths” to generate a few numbers that have no tangible connectivity to the world wij live te.

Whose fault is that? If people were being paid a living wage to do productive work, they’d be doing something more worthwhile. Instead, governments around the world suggest only perverse incentives that mainly benefit those who are already wealthy. The onus is on you to suggest a better path to money than mining cryptocurrencies.

Presently nobody shows up to be interested ter talking about thesis rather than the horrendously volitile nature of botcoin.

I’m fairly blessed to talk about them, but everything has downsides, so it looks like just so much motivated reasoning when you want to attempt to concentrate on the ills of Bitcoin alone. Without a total accounting of all the alternatives, it just doesn’t make any rational sense to dismiss cryptocurrencies. Like I said, I have more trust te the mathematics behind it than I can trust the federal government to do anything other than use inflationary policies to devalue the national currency. And I like the idea of a currency that is secured by something other than guns.

My very first suspicion would be an insider attack.

“It makes no sense to single out Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency) spil if the idea of digital assets is something fresh.”

True, they should be singled out INDIVIDUALLY, each coin suggesting by inherent technological merits/flaws from a trustworthy auditor like real investment vehicles.

The entire industry is railing the hype wave and news cycle way too closely. One exchange goes “away” leaving big uninsured losses, or one country bans or restricts trading, the entire market concept goes for a MAJOR rail – to waterput the stock market to shame. Some investors will rightly never go for that. Eventually the market will lodge out and the current extreme volatility will become more of a sustained gradual uptick.

You know those brick/mortar banks aren’t going to observe that much profit go right around them. It’s unclear how they’ll attack the problem but they wield DC like their own vulpen sword.

ANY regulation is going to make the market go flying around the slagroom. Any at all. Wij have some amazingly shortsighted and thick people ter office right now mind you. They have to regulate it eventually, so for the time being te that uncertainty zone anything can toebijten to the entire market value determined by whoever pays DC lobbyists the most to form the playing field to their designs.

Now imagine a particular coin’s value soars and that money gets pumped directly into a PAC to affect the outcome of legislation to benefit it and cementlaag its dominance. Too far fetched? What’s to zekering it.

I agree with your rechtsvordering that cryptocurrencies have the same “value” spil metals trading. I also agree with Clive that this loops back to the “real economy” with all the material and social impacts he mentions.

I’m still not wooed about “trusting the maths”. Te rigorous narrow terms the maths may be sound but cryptocurrencies spil a thing are narrow and self-referential. I note the larger clearing houses are now beginning to attract comments defining their authority and support te the surrounding ecosystem which smacks of institution building and a desire for respectability. This isn’t “trusting the maths” but more a political kwestie.

I suspect regulation is only a matter of time and will be neccessay to address the security punt (such spil implementations and fraud and ease of access) and ethical and environmmental issues. This is a different maths and very real.

The entire industry is railing the hype wave and news cycle way too closely.

Don’t blame the “industry”, blame the speculative investors. They could just stick to backing Bitcoin (or the major Three or Five or whatever) and creating a stable, growing economy. Instead, they’re messing it up for everyone by using their same stock-market-tactics to screw with what should be a good thing.

Eventually the market will lodge out and the current extreme volatility will become more of a sustained gradual uptick.

I don’t think so. The history of Bitcoin has too many ups and downs to expect people to abruptly become rational about it. But, again, that’s bot true of the stock market and most other investment vehicles.

They have to regulate it eventually, so for the time being ter that uncertainty zone anything can toebijten to the entire market value determined by whoever pays DC lobbyists the most to form the playing field to their designs.

That’s exactly rearwards. The reason a loterijlot of people find cryptocurrencies valuable is because of those kinds of machinations that go on ter “the real global economy”. Recall when encryption wasgoed a weapon and couldn’t be exported? Any attempts to waterput this genie back te the bottle is only going to make it worth more.

Now imagine a particular coin’s value soars and that money gets pumped directly into a PAC to affect the outcome of legislation to benefit it and cementlaag its dominance. Too far fetched? What’s to zekering it.

Feeble tea. What’s to zekering the ill gains from an actual crime being used ter the same way? Let’s not make this a discussion about what a bad idea PACs are.

This isn’t “trusting the maths” but more a political kwestie.

Sure, or more generally a people kwestie. That’s all part of what makes security difficult, but you can’t deny that a security based on mathematics is better than a security based on mere authority. I mean, the story that began this discussion is fundamentally about a compromised pc. Given that hackers can do anything when they have access, it’s telling that they’re going after Bitcoins rather than handelsbank accounts.

I suspect regulation is only a matter of time

Like I said to hmm, that kleuter of talk is only going to fuel another Bitcoin boom.

“Don’t blame the “industry”

I don’t myself, it’s just a market reality. All coins are somewhat linked by the whirr cycle.

If one has a problem they all get a waterbed rail no matter how totally unrelated, for now.

“The history of Bitcoin has too many ups and downs to expect people to abruptly become rational about it”

I think eventually 1-3 of the coins is going to pull away from the surplus and be more widely adopted.

When that happens the market will stabilize somewhat because the inflation thrusts the value up,

and then individual traders have less of a single-trade effect on the overall value.

One could think at that point thesis massive one-event glides would be fewer and further inbetween.

But you’re onberispelijk, there won’t be a unexpected end to volatility, it will be subtle overheen time.

Vanaf your stock market analogy, bitcoin is having the 500+/- point a day rails of 2008.

Eventually it will look like our current more stable 100+/- days, staying up higher.

That market-settling confidence comes with time alone IMO.

“What’s to zekering the ill gains from an actual crime being used te the same way?”

My screenplay wasn’t illegal, requires no actual

crime. That’s truly the point.

The system is broad open to regulatory controls from any high bidder lobbyist.

Another downside to bit coin presently is the “fees” and how much you can be blackmailed into paying just to get your transaction dealt with before the volitility has robbed you.

BradTempleton suggests cryptocurrencies might help alleviate problem gambling. He also discusses the broader punt of addiction such spil social mediaand whether this might be subject to fresh regulation and addictive advertsing being banned.

The Gaurdian covered the addictive nature of immovable odds betting machines a few days ago and legislative challenges ter the face of industry lobbying versus social good.

that last @ clive wasgoed actually @ imp stupid obviously.

that last @ clive wasgoed actually @ imp stupid obviously.

It might be time for you to get a checkup from a mental health professional. Clive’s last message wasgoed the same anti-Bitcoin motivated reasoning he’s demonstrated before, while I have always bot clearly pro-Bitcoin (at least ter concept, if not 100% te execution). I’ve never pretended that Bitcoin is ideal, and transaction fees have bot another one of its growing aches. But then I reminisce a day when ATMs used to be free, too, and realize the problem is not cryptocurrency, but greedy middlemen once again.

@Impossible Stupidity -sic

What I said : “the comment I waterput @clive to wasgoed a reply to @you, obviously.” I transposed the names.

“It might be time for you to get a checkup from a mental health professional.”

I admit I toevluchthaven’t indeed found specific occasion to lately, it hadn’t occurred until you mentioned it. Certainly I will give it all the due considerations. All of them, even the purple one.

Mental health one-liners usually aren’t truly a excellent lever by which to shove your arguments along either, tho’ I will cede that depends on the argument you’re attempting to make.

1 exchange got klapper, 1 theft. NEM/XEM coin is only something like 1/Two of 1% of all coins, so even if 100% of it got stolen it shouldn’t mathematically come close to affecting the other coin markets 3-4-10% – That’s like Greenland burying the world economy 3-4-10% when it announces insolvency or something.

That’s a problem.

What I said : “the comment I waterput @clive to wasgoed a reply to @you, obviously.” I transposed the names.

Well, that might have bot what you meant, but what you said wasgoed, at best, ambiguously terse. But it certainly does read spil fairly sane when you write it out te utter.

Unwind a bit, see if heated defense of imaginary money is indeed how you want to spend your limited moments – since wij’re providing each other unsolicited advice spil internet strangers.

See, now you’re engaging ter projection. There is nothing heated or wound up on this side of the screen. I wasgoed just stating rational facts that attempt to toonbank the hysteria that some people seem to have against cryptocurrencies. All money is imaginary, and so are most of the other things that people get worked up about, both online and offline.

A viable currency voorwaarde fulfil three functions – it voorwaarde be useful spil a medium of exchange, a measure of value, and a store of value. Bitcoin fails fairly obviously at all three of thesis and can therefore not reasonably be considered a “currency”. It – like most other crypto-“currencies” – is truly a very speculative type of unregulated security, what would otherwise be called a “penny stock”.

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